Istio! Service Mesh! Netflix OSS! The technologies and concepts for doing API-driven architectures have existed for longer than most of us have been alive, at least, able to program. In our kubernetes world, a "service mesh" is the all-in concept for managing and doing microservices at the application layer, but it also brings in all sorts of operational security capabilities that can be overlooked at first. In this episode, Ben and Coté talk with Oren Penso about the evolution of the service mesh idea, how it's evolved over recent years, and a little overview of the VMware Tanzu Service Mesh.